Welcome to Mic’d Up with Raise the Bar, where we bring you inspiring conversations with motivational speakers who redefine resilience and success.
In this episode we’re joined by Erica Farmer, TEDx speaker, learning futurist, co founder of Quantum Rise Talent Group and Founder of EricaFarmer.AI, to explore what the future of skills, education and AI fluency really looks like.
Listen in to unpack how AI can support neurodivergent talent, boost wellbeing and drive performance, while also challenging some dangerous myths about using large language models at work and for mental health support. From classroom experiences to corporate learning and Erica’s upcoming book AI for People Professionals, this conversation gives leaders and L&D teams practical ways to experiment with AI confidently, inclusively and responsibly.
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Erica Farmer Podcast Transcript
Kate
Hello and welcome to ‘Mic’d Up with Raise the Bar’, a podcast series where leading voices in motivation and leadership share what really drives success.
On today’s episode, we’re on a journey into the future of skills and learning with an exceptional guide. TEDx speaker, LinkedIn Learning instructor, fellow podcast host and co-founder of Quantum Rise Talents. Today’s guest has worked with some of the biggest brands in the UK and she’s currently working on a brand new book called AI for People Professionals. Welcome, Erica Farmer. Erica, thank you so much for joining us today.
Erica
Thank you so much, Kate. It’s just, fantastic to be here and, you know, really appreciate the invite.
Kate
Excellent. Now, we’re not going to hang about, let’s talk education!We’re all on the September back to school vibes, if you’ve got kids actually if you haven’t got kids, you probably still have that sense of like renewal come September time. I think that’s almost kind of timeless, really. We will dive in. What was school and education like for you coming up through the ranks?
Erica
Wow. Gosh. I’ve got I’ve got mixed feelings, around my education and early career and actually, you know, that’s probably a bit cynical. I do look back and think I had a fantastic upbringing and education. I was very lucky to, although against the advice of my head teacher of my primary school, I did pass my 11 plus and get into the local grammar school.
I think I was a bit of a dodgy bet at one point, so somehow I must have had a lucky day. I was the kid that was the naughty kid. The kid that would never stop talking. Diagnosed with hyperactivity at age four, which we kind of now know is ADHD. I’m actually going through the adult pathway diagnosis at the moment for adult ADHD, and I can see how that’s played back in my education, where it worked, where it was a bit of a superpower.
And when actually I was the kid in the headmaster’s office quite a lot for talking too much and distracting others. That said, I was a typical neurodivergent, schoolgirl I masked quite a lot. And actually I achieved very good grades at school and went on to university. I think I probably had to work quite hard compared to other students, particularly in grammar school, to get those grades.
So I know I can achieve and I can get something when I want to get it. But I do find the distractions of the world quite challenging at times, particularly in this cold environment where it’s not set up to support people from, you know, neurodivergent backgrounds.
Kate
Absolutely. We’ve just been having a brief chat there, haven’t we, about how much things have changed, even just in our time, never mind for the kids that are coming up now. What was your favorite lesson at school?
Erica
Sport, PE. I had some amazing PE teachers. I was very good at PE and actually I ended up doing sport science as a degree, not because I wanted to become a PE teacher, just that I needed a degree and I was good to it.
And that probably tied into the energy and the hyperactivity and finding something I was good at and I could excel at. So yeah, PE for me.
Kate
Amazing that I don’t think that was what I was expecting you to say, i thought maybe the sciences in the classical sense, kind of biology, physics, chemistry, of course.
What’s the biggest lesson then, that you bring to your talks?
Erica
I think through my experience being an only child and being neurodivergent and being blessed with self-confidence, I’m so grateful for the confidence I have in myself and others. What I’ve been able to forge is an authentic ability to express how I’m genuinely feeling and who I am.
And I’ve been given the feedback that that encourages confidence and authenticity and other people. When you can demonstrate being so vulnerable about things and being so open about things, I quite happily share around my neurodivergent. I also have fibromyalgia, so obviously managing a business, traveling, you know, speaking, managing your energy in certain ways, particularly in our industry, and speaking where you have to show up when you’re speaking and you want to show up, I’ve got to manage all of that stuff.
And I guess that’s probably where the AI piece comes in, because it helps me do all of that stuff as well. So, yeah, authenticity really being who you are. I think people can sniff when you’re not quite being the person that you say you are. I think particularly in this age of, you know, working behind screens and maybe having that collaboration in person that we used to have pre-pandemic.
Kate
It’s even more important now. I mean, you answered my question there about where does AI come in, how does that feature, how does it help?
You’ve built a career speaking about that, I’ve seen that obviously through your Raise the Bar profile and TedX and you have the ability to break down something like AI to make it feel simple and engaging so that you capture the entire audience. How do you begin to do something like that?
Erica
I think it’s because I’m not a techie by background. I’m not a computer scientist. I’m not an engineer. You know, I’m from corporate with the sport background which taught me very early on those kind of core engagement and people skills. If people aren’t on the journey with you, or if you are full of jargon or you baffle people with science and you can see it kind of in people’s eyes when they glaze over, you’ve already lost the battle.
You know, the real skill is getting people excited and engaged about what you’re talking about. And more than that, wanting to go and do something with it. You know, clients more than ever want bang from their buck, whether it’s training, speaking, conferences, events. I think long gone is the kind of luxury of showing up and have something conceptual spoken for an hour or so and thinking like, that’s nice, but not actually wanting to go and do anything with it.
So I think my background in people, H.R., talent and land has primed me, to be able to articulate things and use storytelling and metaphors and all of those good things to get people to connect with things like their own AI division, which I talk about.
So what are our own personal incremental benefits we personally get from working with AI? I’ve talked about mine already in terms of running the business and having health conditions. People, if people connect with that, that’s where you get the unlock. In terms of then the more organizational focus, KPIs, productivity, efficiency, etc., etc. you can’t go in with that stuff. So being able to break down these things, get people to connect, to get people to get excited, that’s what we’re all about.
Kate
I think why our clients come back to us! Really amazing. If you’re working in a marketing environment like I, I’ve the assumption that everybody uses AI, everybody, you know, utilizes it one way or another in their working lives. But that’s not that’s not the case.
Lots of people still manage to go about their day to day tasks without needing to use it at all. So for that audience, what’s the biggest myth about AI at work?
Erica
Yeah. I think that I see a barrier. There’s a couple of barriers to AI, one being, oh, I’ve tried it and it’s rubbish. It doesn’t do what I think it’s going to do.
And when you ask, you know, well, how have you collaborated with it? How have you worked with it. You tend to find people put the one liner in like they would have done with the Google search and expected it to come back with a perfect outcome or response. And the mindset shift is like, you got to think about these kind of technologies as maybe you’re a junior or an intern or an apprentice or someone who’s new to your team that needs that prompting, that instruction, that clarity.
You know, what problem are you trying to solve with working with AI? You can’t just put a one liner as an expect it to magic up the context and everything else that you haven’t given it, because it doesn’t work like that. So that’s that kind of I keep going. It doesn’t work very well. The more common issue is we need to take accountability that in terms of our instruction that we give it and our skill set that we develop is part of that.
The other barrier that I see is just the fear barrier when they haven’t had people haven’t had the roadmap and the guidelines of how they should be working with these technologies and what it means to have the right, if you if you learn to drive a car, you have to have lessons, you have to pass the driving test, you have to have a map or a satnav to get somewhere where you’ve not got to before.
So what do you start talking to people about? That stuff. They kind of get it. So if you haven’t given them the driving lessons, but you put them straight into the car and say, this is your map, no wonder they can’t do the old clutch and the accelerator bite. There’s that still exists, but I’ll give it an automatic for a long time. So I think that’s still a thing. I think that’s a perfect analogy. So I guess a couple of things that just kind of what what does it mean. Am I going to get in trouble. Psychological safety, but also, you know, we’ve got to give people the support they need to really pick this stuff up.
Kate
So how do you keep inclusion front and center when you’re talking about tech? You said you have very open about your own neurodivergence. People see that is something to be able to open unlock something in themselves as well.
Erica
This isn’t just into the tech transformation digital transformation system that’s been rolled out in your company, your organization. This is the biggest thing we’re going to see in this generation. And that sounds quite grandiose when you say that, but I genuinely believe it. And it’s up to us as women, as people of colour, as neurodivergent people, as, you know, whatever, group you associate with. We all have an accountability and an obligation to step up and use AI that’s going to make our lives easier. And the reason I say that is because I firmly believe that. And I’m not spiritual or religious, by the way, when we get to the end of our time and we get to the pearly gates or whatever, is that you believe it or not believing at that point, you’re not going to stand in front of some pool and get the medal for the hardest life lived.
Just because you haven’t used AI, because you don’t believe in it, because it’s cheating, and all this kind of stuff like make your life easy. And as people who are first followers with AI, people who are advocates, you know, leaders in organizations, whoever you are, you have an obligation to enable people to connect with this kind of technology, either personally or professionally.
I do some work with Jenny Garrett. Jenny does a lot around the black community and around the podcast of engaging AI in ethnicities, for example. So having voices like Jenny’s out there, is really important to recognize that, it’s not just for people in certain jobs who are maybe male, white and middle aged.
This stuff can support everybody. I talk around how it supports me as a neurodivergent AI blogger and how it can support women in terms of really stepping up and understanding what that equity requirement needs to be in the workplace. So it’s for everybody. We just need to step up and understand that and take those opportunities.
Kate
You had mentioned earlier on around psychological safety. I’ve noticed on your LinkedIn this morning a growing trend of people using AI for trauma dumping. I thought that was fascinating.
Erica
I kind of started thinking about AI, mental health and wellbeing maybe about six months ago. And I’ve written a big chapter in the book about this, because I think it’s so important that we recognize that we’ve got two big things colliding in society at the moment. One is AI and tech and how people feel about that, and the other one is mental health and wellbeing and wellness. And we’re also hearing about some horror stories, particularly the other side of the pond where, you know, unfortunately, people have died by suicide because of their engagements with large language models and the lack of, safeguards. I think it’s important to have the conversation because in news yesterday, I saw something like it’s a 75% increase in people using large language models to trauma dump and there’s a time and place to use that technology and I’m a real advocate for that.
When you are feeling a bit anxious and you need some breathing exercises, when you know you’ve got that big presentation coming up and you need to role play and some less not available, so you can role play with a large language model to get the words and drive your confidence.
If you’ve had a neurodivergent diagnosis, you want to write an email to your line manager around what that means and the tend to ask for adjustments in the workplace. It’s great for all of these things, or it’s not great for is when you need psychiatric help, psychological help, help from your GP, medication, you know, whatever it might be.
And I know someone who was very close to me who is effectively self diagnosing their mental health condition through a large language model. And the problem is a lot of these large language models are people pleasing. They would agree with whatever you say and they’ll take you down the rabbit hole. It’s like the algorithm on social media, right?
The more you search it, the more you’re going to see. And unfortunately, this technology is doing the same thing. So there is a time for not just language models to absolutely, practically help us with our wellbeing and mental health, especially when we can’t go and have a chat with a line manager. Well, we can’t access the employee assistance program or counselling or whatever that might be in the moment.
But if those bad days are more frequent than good days, or you start to see patterns or you start to find yourself trauma dumping, this is should be a bit of a red flag and you need to go and speak to a human, not go down the rabbit hole with artificial intelligence. And we we have to look out for that with our friends and family as well.
Kate
I mean that statistic in itself is is really shocking up in the 70%. So many people are utilising it in that way. Really really interesting. If you’ve not already checked out Erica’s LinkedIn app for those there’s talking points and insights definitely to have a look. So talking about future skills, what should every leader be learning right now about future tech.
Erica
It’s not about doing the same things that they’ve always done right and expecting different results. It’s about understanding what does leadership look like going forwards. And currently that is inspiring people to engage with new technologies, but not just kind of having a 45 minute townhall and talking about why, as an organization, we should adopt AI and that’s it.
You should be vulnerable, you should be open, you should share your journey in regards to using this technology. Share your stories and your metaphors but also think about what those other skills are. Critical thinking comes up time and time again. So, if we can’t go back to the trauma dumping conversation, it’s easy to get swept away with working with an AI that can oh my God, this is brilliant because it’s democratized and I can use my natural language to engage with it, and I can speak to it.
That speaks back to me, and it feels like a person. Critical thinking, should say, hang on, stop. This is still a machine. We still are in charge with the human intelligence. We can’t just get swept away on that automation train and get AI to do everything. The leaders should be really clear on that. The other piece that I really advocate for is learning agility.
Whether as leaders or managers or frontline staff or whoever you are, we need to start learning that what we’ve done in the past in terms of skills and knowledge, probably they’re not going to be the ones that support us and serve us going forwards. We need to be become comfortable with being uncomfortable, and that means putting down those resources, that power, that knowledge, particularly in education.
This is quite a high tension topic at the moment because that’s who we built, when we built our identity around. We need to put some of that stuff down now, because AI is democratised knowledge. So do we really need the depth of expertise that we’ve had historically in the past? Probably not, particularly with leader as expert or manager as expert.
We know, and I’ve seen for a long time that shift towards facilitator, coach, for example, who inspire us, that now is even more important. We need to pick up new skills and knowledge and apply them in record time, putting down our egos and all those other things to enable our organizations to pivot and be more competitive with that organizational edge. That is what is really going to serve us going forwards
Kate
It’s so interesting. I feel like I could ask you more questions, especially on education as i have a vested interest with having children at three very different stages of education at the moment. I think the speed at which things are moving and technology’s moving and the way that the kids are taught these days then moving into the workplace as well.
Onto your motivational speaking experience and what you’ve enjoyed the most, what’s been the most fun or the most memorable session that you’ve delivered?
Erica
Oh, wow. Okay. I think my TEDX was something from crafting my expertise as a speaker was a great experience and kind of put me on the speaking stage, TEDx is such a fantastic, journey to go through. And I watch it now and I’m like, I can see even how far I’ve come from when I did that in 2022, compared to three years later now. Yeah, but what I say in my TedX, I still firmly believe.
I talk about the fact that kids in school should have that hyper personalized digital, experience which enables their own ability and skills on an individual level, rather than being 30, 35 kids with one teacher and teaching assistant.
I was that hyperactive kid that would distract others in the classroom. So I was that kid that was probably the one that got the teaching assistant sat next to me, and the poor teacher was dealing with the 34 other children in the classroom. We can’t continue that, and we also can’t continue to deliver a curriculum that isn’t fit for purpose, like the World Economic Forum said in 2022 that 66% of kids aged between the age of six and 11 will go on to a vocation or a career that doesn’t even exist yet.
Two thirds of our kids in school at that time, this was three years ago, will go into a job that we can’t even fathom yet because of the pace of change and change in technology. You know, prompt engineers didn’t even exist in that point. And now that’s a career. So I love what I said in my TEDx X.
I would say it very differently now. And I’m actually applying for some of the tactics hopefully for next year because I want to do again to kind of benchmark my speaking career again. I think it will be around wellbeing. AI wellbeing. But yeah, that’s probably the kind of moment where I stepped onto the stage and said this is who I am and this is what I want to do.
Kate
Fantastic. From what’s happened before, let’s move on to what’s coming next. First of all, how did you find in the book writing process?
Erica
I’ve literally just submitted by for my manuscript site to the publisher. Yeah, I love it. I found it’s such a good experience to gather my thoughts and the challenge of writing around I when AI is changing so quickly was quite an interesting one.
When I pitched my idea to the publishing committee, it was important for me to articulate it’s a principles first book, lots of practical tips and tricks and lots of quotes, lots of sharing. But I wanted to write it in a way that it will still be valuable to people, professionals, and three years and five years. I’ll probably do like a second edition and things like that because things would have changed so quickly.
But I think I’ve kind of hit my goal in regards to the, I’m going to say future proof, not totally future proof, but the future proof way that I’ve written it and the fact that it gives you that ability really just to kind of go right down the rabbit hole in each of the areas and consolidate how you really think and feel about a topic.
That’s the beauty of writing a book. And when I start to get the feedback, so it comes out May when I start to get that feedback, saying this has changed how I think about AI or this has changed how I engage with my stakeholders about AI or this is the tangible benefits we’re seeing in our function now. Thanks to your advice.
That’s going to be the proof in the pudding when I know I’ve written the books that I want to write. That’s the that’s the job satisfaction there for all the long hours and the compiling and the research in the reader. And that’s part of the process.
Kate
We cannot wait to get the book onto our shelves at the Raise the Bar office, the team will be clamoring over it. Mark your diaries for 3rd May 26. Erica, if you could give one piece of advice then to tie up 2025 for L&D professionals with regards to AI and future tech, what would it be?
Erica
If you are not experimenting already, your business is. So that sounds a little bit of fear mongering, but I want the like we know that parts of organizations will set up cottage industries on things that they want to take forward, right? So don’t be naive to think that’s not happening in your organization. You have to be at the forefront of experimental mindset, test and learn, and you can do these things really small, whether that’s using a transcript on teams or zoom, and putting that through to actually see your copilot, to summarize, to get some insight, get some narrative, to write a report to give some extra value to some stakeholders, go and solve a stakeholders problem that they don’t know that they have and show them how to use AI with it. T
hat’s how you really start to build those relationships. Don’t feel like you have to take on the world with AI because it can be overwhelming and scary.
Find that little kind of problem that you need to solve. Go and solve it with AI and do it in collaboration with the stakeholder. That will get you so much credibility.
Kate
I have learned so much over the last 20 something minutes, thank you so much, Erica, for your time today. It’s been truly fascinating. And if you’d like to find out more and book Erica for your next live event or virtual, you can head on over to her profile on Raised Bar.co.uk and I will see you for the next episode of mic’d up with Raise the Bar.
Erica Farmer
Speaker
Erica Farmer is an engaging and passionate AI and future skills specialist professional speaker.