Mic’d Up with Raise the Bar: Leadership & Letting Go

Welcome to Mic’d Up with Raise the Bar, where we bring you inspiring conversations with motivational speakers who redefine resilience and success.

In this episode we’re joined by motivational speaker, Blaire Palmer, a leadership and change expert with a sharp eye on the future of work.

Expectations between employees and organisations are shifting fast, so what does a good leader look like in 2025 and beyond? Blaire dives into how the old rulebook no longer applies and why the leaders of tomorrow need to be more human, more authentic and more adaptable than ever.

• Blaire Palmer Podcast Transcript

  Kate – Hello and welcome to Mic’d Up with Raise the Bar, a podcast series where leading voices in motivation and leadership share what really drives success. I’m Kate Riley James, and on today’s episode, we’re diving into the future of leadership with a guest who spent ten whirlwind years as one of the youngest female producers on BBC’s today program before becoming one of Europe’s first corporate coaches.

  Over the last 20 plus years, she’s coached boards at the likes of Mattel, Airbus, Roche Pharmaceuticals, GSK, the FA and many, many more, smashing myths about what it takes to lead. She’s written four books, including her most recent rallying cry, Folks in Suits How to Lead the Workplace Reformation. Please welcome Blair Palmer. Blair, it’s lovely to have you.

  Blaire – It’s great to be here.

  Kate – Now we’re going to dive straight in. We recently received your new book. And it’s beautiful bright pink jacket in the office, at raise the bar and we all dove in. Looks absolutely fantastic on our bookcases there. All about how to lead and think differently, how to engage your workforce, how to really embrace change, essentially.

  So you’ve talked an awful lot about doing leadership differently. What do you believe has changed most about leadership in recent years?

   

  Blaire – Well, I think that not enough has changed, but I think that it is time for a radical change. You know, when I’m talking to audiences, when I’m getting briefed for an event, for instance, although I’m working with my clients on their need and their change, they’re all telling me the same stuff.

  They’re all telling me how hard it is to recreate, how hard it is to retain. What are they gonna do about these Gen Zs? Why aren’t the Gen Zs acting the way that they acted? You know, the Gen X is when they first joined the workforce. How is it so hard to get people to step up and take ownership and take initiatives?

  Where is all the innovation? Why are people coming up with new ideas? What about engagement? How come you know we run these surveys every year, but it’s really, really hard to increase the levels of engagement but all the same stuff. And to me that is an an indication that there’s something fundamentally not right about the way that we’re creating culture.

  And that culture is created by the leaders, by how leaders think and what leaders do advocate. And so instead of picking off these individuals, she is saying, what are we going to do about recruitment around? Let’s let’s do a fix for that. What are we going to do about diversity? Let’s do a fix for that. It seems to me quite obvious that at the root of all of this is one, 2 or 3 core issues.

   

  And if we could address those, then we would deal with all of these presenting issues kind of all, all at once. And that is why we have to let go of what is fundamentally an industrial age Victorian, an idea about what a leader does, what a leader looks like and rethink for a new age, post-industrial information age, AI age.

  How do we create organizations where the humanity in people is what’s invited in and what can thrive, not just people as sort of productive machines?

  Kate – So would you say, in essence, then what’s changed the most is actually people? Is human nature? Is how we apply ourselves at work?

  Blaire – Yeah I think people’s expectations are really different.

  So if we, you know, haven’t changed in, in so fundamental ways, we still, you know, people were still people 100 years ago. But our expectations have for sure changed. You know, we have basic living conditions that would have been unthinkable 100 years ago, even 30 years ago. The access that we have to technology and to comforts and the the speed of our ability to get information, all these sorts of things, so, you know, so our expectations of work can then evolve.

  People wanting to have a sense of purpose and meaning, they want to feel like, is that going to make this much of a commitment to their work, that there’s something in it for them that is beyond a salary or the occasional pay rise or promotion? Meanwhile, the company is asking different things of its people. They they don’t any longer just want you to rock up and do a solid eight hours and then go home.

   

  They want you to care, you know, they want to see potential. They want to see you taking initiative. If they want to see you going above and beyond, they need you to. And so the contract between the employer and the employee is changing. Yeah, yeah. They’re explorations of each other. And so we can’t just treat people. What we used to do when it was okay for people to sort of mainly just do what they were told and then go, Hollywood.

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think you can see elements of that across sector, across industry. It’s not something specific, a kind of catch all of a corporate world, as it were. You know, it’s something that’s across the board, right in and across sectors. So it doesn’t I don’t know, the industry, it doesn’t matter whether it is the commercial sector or the NGO sector or public sector.

  These are all these are issues that come up every single time I work in clients.

  Kate – At the top of the show that we’d said you work with so many huge brand names that, everybody listening would have heard of, when you talk about doing leadership differently and with the experience of working with those clients, what does doing leadership differently actually look like in practice?

   

  Blaire – But I think fundamentally it is about being an evolved and a continually more enlightened human being. And so, you know, leadership started becoming this kind of science where there was a sort of almost a set of dials and if you do these, I remember reading like reading articles of all the business, really like the 35 essential qualities of I’ve read and looking about thinking, oh, that is silly.

  Unrealistic is that 35 qualities that are essential in order to lead? I just don’t think it’s that communicating. I think that it’s about being as, as in touch with yourself, as a human being as possible, and then being in touch with other people as possible. And that requires some personal development. So, when I talk about leadership, about when it isn’t the how to else, you know, how to do a 1 to 1 or how to organize a team, that’s management stuff.

  It’s still in important, but that’s not leadership. Leadership is about who you are, and who you need to be is what’s changing. So, it’s things like, being a person who is worthy of trust, but also being a person who is willing to trust is not just enough. People to trust you and then blindly follow you have to be willing to trust them as well, because you’re you are encountering, you’re asking them to step up and take ownership.

  You have to empower them. You have to let go of some power. You can’t empower them. And how you got to pack it, it doesn’t work that way, is they have to give away power in order to be able to be empowered. And what comes up then is your ego and well, if I’m in power, if I’m genuinely giving away my power, then what’s my job?

  Why? Why do I deserve to be in this position if I’m not the one that gets to make all the decisions and I’m not the one that, that has final say, and I’m not the one that has more access to information than everybody else. I’m pushing all of that out to people. Do I ever have a job?

  I, you know, and a lot of our sense of worth and value is tied up in these job titles, in the in the power, you know, in the influence that we can have. And I’m saying give it away be for trusting and literally saying, okay. And then what? How will I build my time? You know, why will I even deserve to be there?

  So this is one I think it’s a personal development journey, which is different to what it was in the past, which was a bit more, the metallics. And that I would say that is one of the biggest shifts is we’ve got to be far more aware of our inner world and how the things we think and the beliefs that we carry about ourselves and about the world and about other people are what is going to limit our ability to really lead you, through, you know, very honest, subtle, unpredictable, fast changing cups.

   

  Kate – In your experience, do you find that there’s been a shift in terms of women in leadership roles and just picking up on some of the themes that you’d mentioned about confidence and managing ego and your place within the wider workspace. I’m just really interested to know the female take on it. Do you find that there are there are additions to that or do you find that that’s just across the board that that seems like a level playing field?

   

  Blaire- Well, I think that we have a very narrow idea of what a leader looks like. That is that is quite male, but that, that but sort of cliched male.

  Yes. Yeah. You know, no, not real male because a lot of men also don’t really see themselves that way and don’t really want to lead in that way. But we have this kind of very narrow idea. It is somebody with a lot of charisma. It is somebody who is very articulate, who can give a rousing speech, you know, who who is comfortable in front of an audience.

  You know, who who commands followership, blind followership, some company. That doesn’t work for a lot of women, but it also doesn’t work for a lot of men. It also doesn’t work for a lot of the new generations. Yeah. So many, you know, the millennials who are now many of them. I mean, when I look out into an audience and I ask actually, you know, if we are in the room and I ask about millennials, it’s a room of senior leaders and half of the people offering their hands up.

  So the millennials are now as in charge as a Gen Xers. And so there’s still some boomers hanging around. And but even the Gen Z, you know, the oldest of the Gen Zs are approaching 30, but they’re also in the room with leadership positions, and they’re looking at that model and the way that we’ve designed those senior roles.

  And they’re thinking, no, thank you. I’m not willing to make the sacrifices to my life, to my house, to to my family. The, the I see those guys have made and a lot of women are thinking that, too. And a lot of us, you know, there is a huge amount of diversity now that we are inviting into our organizations for all the right reasons.

  But we’re looking at that model and saying that does not really appeal to me. And and it’s that’s still a create a, a pipelining problem. Because if we have this very narrow idea of what a leader looks like, which is huge sacrifice, international travel, pool sleep, work life balance, broken relationships, you know, all of these sorts of things.

  People are looking at that and thinking, I’d rather not folks around to stay in middle management or even not do any management at all. Just do my job.

  Kate – When you started your career, from being behind the scenes in terms of the rush of a TV studio, stepping out onto centre stage or switching your camera on when you doing a virtual event, what impact are you aiming to have on your audience with your presentations or with your keynote speeches?

   

  Blaire – There’s a couple of things that I’m going to have to do. The first is I want everyone in the room to see themselves as a leader, regardless of seniority or age or role or any of those things. Because leadership is not about positional power. You can have positional power and not really be a leader, and you can be very junior and be a leader, because what leadership is, is someone who can see what is current and can see what could be, and then is willing to disrupt the status quo to bring about change.

  And that can happen with anybody within the organization, in the right culture. And given the freedom to do that, even if it’s just about their own leadership. I spend a hell of a lot of my time owning meetings where I can’t contribute, where I shouldn’t even be.

  Can my time be better used? How do I really make the most of being there, either to give value or add value? All of this is leadership because it’s about thinking about what can I change in order to achieve a better outcome.

  Everybody in the audience has the opportunity to lead in one way or another, they can make an impact. This is about you as a person and designing the style of leadership based on who you are.

  So if you’re an introvert. It can be difficult if you’re the youngest person in the room. What if you’re the oldest person in the room? What if you’ve been in the same organization for your whole career? You leverage that, we need all different kinds of lenses on these problems because the solutions that are required are sophisticated.

  This richness of thinking help to come up with really great solutions. So you all have something to offer and you can all make a difference. And that’s what I want people to feel.

   

  Kate – Is a recent or a standout moment from an event or client projects that really illustrates that message about lead in differently thinking, differently in action?

   

  Blaire – A few months ago, I was doing an event in Greece and I did a bit of keynote about 20 minutes, and then I was interviewed for a Fireside Chat, and then we opened up to questions. It was a really, really nice format and the quality of the questions coming from the audience and I mean, we ran out of time for the questions, in effect, because so many people wanted to get involved. I was told afterwards it was the most engaged that the audience had been in terms of their participation. And to me, that’s a real win because we’ve all been in audience. It’s hard to stick your hand up and ask the question. I always like to hang around, because there’s always a little queue of people who want to say hi and chat more. That to me is the bit that demonstrates ‘this landed great, this is going to result in changes of behaviour, and attitude’, which is exactly what you want. You don’t just want it to be entertaining. You want as if as the organiser of the event to feel like. Yeah, that was really fun.

  I love being on stage, but I particularly like after where there’s a buzz and people are coming and chatting. Whether it was 20 minutes or an hour and a half, as we were doing something a bit more interactive. I think that’s what everyone wants to feel is that they made a difference.

  Kate – For leaders who are tuning in to listen today if there is one thing that they could do this week to start leading differently, what would it be? What bit of advice would you give them?

   

  Blaire – So this is going to sound a bit cliche, but I will explain what I mean. So, it is listening.

  I thought I was going to talk about cutting edge stuff, but you talked about listening, hearing about listening for the last 30 years. But, I’m talking about a next level of listening. Leaders know that they should listen actively so that they should show clearly that they’re hearing what the other person is saying, they may also have done some coaching training so they know how to listen in order to ask better questions.

  They also know that it’s impolite to interrupt. So maybe they’re just listening politely. Let someone else speak.

  I’m suggesting that anyone listening to this goes away and starts listening so hard they might change their own mind. So not expecting others to change their mind, expecting that I might change my mind as a result of listening. And in order to do that, you have to acknowledge that the way you see things isn’t the only way it is.

  Regardless of your 35 years of experience, regardless of your expertise in the subject line, you’re talking to someone who’s brand new into the business or whatever. Everybody has something to offer that can give us a different lens and a different perspective. And when we see that lens, we cannot unsee it. You know? And I think this would solve a lot of problems where decisions get made from the top of the organisation, for instance, and then get pushed down to the people who will have to implement. A willingness to change your own mind in the like what you hear. Fantastic. Kate – We would love to know from anybody listening, if you take that advice from Blaire and run with it, we would love to know what the outcomes are.

  Please do drop us a line over at Raise the bar.co.uk, we always love to hear your updates. Turning all the way back around to the beginning of the episode, we’ve got to talk about Punks in Suits. I did mention the bright pink jacket of the book and the punk typeface really caught our attention. Do you enjoy the writing process? Because this is your fourth book?

  Blaire – Yeah, I like writing. I mean, anyone who’s done any writing where they’ve written a book or even just, you know, a long essay or something, it’s all very fun at the beginning. And then there’s a terribly boring, frustrating where you have to edit what you’ve already written and now you have to write it again. And there’s a number of chapters that are in this folder in my computer that didn’t make it into the book, full chapters! I’m out walking the dog and I’m thinking, okay, that’s rubbish. That’s not really what I wanted to say. This is what I want to say. Now I have to go back and rewrite that whole chapter so that is tiring and frustrating, but it’s the process.

  Kate – Give us a little bit of an overview! It’s almost like an audio blurb, about the myth busting and what people can learn from Punks in Suits.

  Blaire – It is a rallying cry to rethink leadership for this part of the 21st century that we’re in and beyond. There is an urgency to that because businesses are really struggling, because people are burning out, because of the expectations. And then there’s so much change, that being the sort of icing on the cake.

  I bust the Victorian age myths, things like: ‘most people are just trying to get away with something’. We need controls, the systems and processes in place. It’s not true for most people, they’re not trying to get away with something and not trying to pull the wool. They’re just trying to do a good job.

  And also the myth; ‘people are just second rate machines’. We used to get efficiency and productivity out of them, we do want them to work like the machines. Only we’re not machines. We don’t need people to do that stuff. We really need that humanity. How do we create an environment where humanity can thrive?

  And then I run through some of the big themes around change and leadership around business as a force for good in the world.

  And then the final call to action to today’s leaders is to leave their organisation ready for the future and not just seek out the back door.

  Kate – I have learned so much over the last the last half an hour with you Blaire. The book is available now. Punks in Suits, available from all of your reputable bookstores. I highly recommend that you give it a read. You can also find out more about Blaire’s recent work and how to book her to speak at your next event over at Raise the bar.co.uk

  Thank you so much. It’s been absolutely fascinating talking to you. Thank you so much for joining us. I will see you again next time for another episode of Mic’d Up with Raise the Bar.